Tiago Dias José is a partner at MGRA & & Associados in Lisbon, Portugal, concentrating on public law. In this episode, he and Lindsay talk about the legal patterns in Portugal, especially in property and sustainability, and why Portugal is such a beneficial location to do company.
You can listen to the podcast here, or we have actually supplied a records of the highlights listed below.
Lindsay: Hi and welcome to the Law office ILN-telligence Podcast. I’m your host Lindsay Griffiths, Executive Director of the International Attorneys Network. Our visitor today is a returning visitor, we’re truly pleased to have him with us, Tiago Diaz Jose from MGRA in Lisbon, Portugal. Tiago, welcome. We’re truly grateful to have you back with us. Why do not you take a couple minutes to present yourself and your company and your practice.
Tiago: Hey Lindsay. It’s an enjoyment to be back and to talk once again with you. As a returning visitor, I can present once again the practice of our workplace. We are a store law practice based in Lisbon. We have a couple of workplaces around Portugal, and it is understood considering that several years now that we have a couple of collaborations in Portuguese-speaking nations where we likewise work. As a store law practice, we have a couple of specific departments to cover the primary problems of our customers, state, market, naturally, business tax and administrative law and lawsuits. Our corporation likewise has a little branch that does financing and banking with extremely specialized individuals.
We have a group for IP. Portugal has actually ended up being an entry nation for Europe on IP registration and advancement of brand-new patents and originalities as we ended up being rather a center for business owners and innovators, particularly connected to brand-new innovations. My location of practice is public law, which implies that my group handle numerous elements of the relationship with the state. We have considering that, for several years now, a huge part of our work is relative to the general public transportation system in the Lisbon city. So, it’s connected to innovation and to upgrading innovation and to public [inaudible 00:02:45] and to make all the, state the partners and the operators who interact to put the system every day in much better shape for customer service. However we likewise deal with building and construction licensing, property, and what we have actually seen from time to time is a buzz in interest, and we have actually seen in the ins 2015 that it has actually ended up being a huge issue, sustainability and energy production.
Energy production significance license for brand-new energy systems, relationship with the state in order to ensure that the energy produced is welcome and dispersed through the nationwide grid system, and likewise that the production fulfills the requirements, either for market and company and brand-new advancements, and naturally, for real estate, however that we have actually figured out for several years. It has actually ended up being rather fascinating to comprehend that the Portuguese and energy production end up being changed from being rather coal based and likewise in requirement of importation in, state ten years, to a nation that produces nearly all of its energy requires, and like 80% of the energy taken in is from renewable resources, which implies we have actually seen substantial financial investments and substantial dedication from the state and from the privates that purchase these systems to put this together. And the outcomes are major as companies and as bringing Portugal to be a sustainable nation in regards to energy.
I believe the next focus of issue and financial investment and advancement will be water production, due to the fact that we are a nation in the south of Europe, and we understand that things are not going for the much better with the rain and the absence of water and forest fires. We have actually seen this taking place in the last twenty years, dry spells and absence of supply on water. It has actually not been taking place and it’s not a big issue presently in Portugal, however it is, in our next-door neighbors in Spain and Italy and so on. And we understand that it’ll end up being an issue here, so options are being established and placed on the table to establish and to study what we can do and how we can improve on these. Which implies brand-new financial investment, brand-new financing, brand-new agreements, brand-new insurance coverage, so on and so on.
When It Comes To Portugal and when it comes to our workplace, among the locations that has actually likewise been of our interest and we have actually established, we began establishing in the legal viewpoint, teaming up with a regulator, is that Portugal has actually approved a license for a spaceport in Azores, and we assisted develop the brand-new area law, the Portuguese area law, naturally, comparing to the United States area law with China area law, and with a couple of EU legislation that is currently in location. And I truly think about, this is something we have actually gone over with Anacon, the regulator, and a couple of other interested celebrations on these, that these policy, these prevalent policy ought to be combined.
We ought to attempt, or it ought to be an issue to combine the legislation on these problems, particularly on environment security and insurance coverage, where there is a big capacity for brand-new company and to establish a typical platform that would avoid the operators and the designers and the business to adhere to one policy and after that attempt to use that to everybody, and the legislation does not abide by all the needs. And it will impact us. When this expedition begins progressing, it’ll impact everybody in case of a mishap, or something fails. And if we do not look after that in a regulator’s viewpoint, to have it in a commonalities, it’ll be extremely difficult to, them to either to discover liability, however in an earlier phase, it makes it extremely tough to avoid the threats.
Which, I believe is … It’s an intriguing location and it ought to be an issue.
Lindsay: Definitely. Yes. It is among those things where it’s simpler to begin with the policies now before something occurs instead of to return and attempt and legislate it when something has currently,
Tiago: Once we currently had an issue.
Lindsay: Right, precisely. All of that is truly interesting. Therefore, it seems like Portugal is truly on the cutting edge when it pertains to sustainability and being extremely forward-thinking, particularly having the advantage of what’s occurring with your next-door neighbors in Spain and Italy, as you state, with the forest fires. We’re seeing that here in the United States with what’s simply taken place in Hawaii, which is truly-
Tiago: Canada.
Lindsay: And Canada, naturally.
Tiago: I have actually seen the other day on the news, the fires in Canada are burning for 9 months now.
Lindsay: Yes.
Tiago: It’s fantastic. They need to take an entire city to avoid individuals from getting hurt. It’s truly excellent. Yes, Portugal is, as you stated, on an advanced time, however we likewise … Well, it’s visible, likewise on the need and the interest that we see at the workplace from travelers, naturally, however likewise from immigrants, United States residents and business, and some northern Europeans and some other places like Asia and so on, either from individuals that found Portugal and comprehend that it’s safe location. The environment is excellent. We have political stability; we have actually been the very same nation for a thousand years or 900 years. Tax-wise, we are not a paradise, however we are rather appealing, and the estate preparation here makes a great deal of sense. And for households, education in Portugal and the health system and so on works quite well, and it’s not that costly. And we have actually seen in the last 15 years outstanding worth on property.
We truly see that the long-lasting worth can be held or perhaps increased, and the need has actually been substantial. We have actually had great deals of brand-new customers, great deals of old customers returning, purchasing Portugal, establishing not just real estate, however tourist, facilities, dams, facilities to produce energy like solar plants and wind plants. A great deal of interest from business that currently had the knowledge from France, from Israel, even from the United States. And Yes, we are seeing, the economy is establishing rather well. I read today on the news that Portugal is among the only 3 nations in the EU where the economy grew this year currently in the very first term. So Yes, we are having fun now, and we see that. We see that with brand-new customers, with brand-new interests, and we even needed to reorganize a bit to have more individuals in the workplace to manage the need and to have more concentrated groups on property and on licensings and on commercial tasks and so on. We discovered that.
Lindsay: So that being stated then, what do you believe is the greatest difficulty that you’re dealing with at the minute?
Tiago: In Portugal or at the workplace?
Lindsay: Let’s state at the workplace.
Tiago: At the workplace, when times are great, the difficulties are accepted with happiness.
Lindsay: Naturally.
Tiago: Specifically due to the fact that when the important things is, you need to rearrange to have larger groups, to have more knowledge, and to manage the customer’s needs, it’s simpler than to believe, alright, we need to do cuts or this company is not working out, so we need to alter the instructions, and we are not seeing that. It’s the opposite. We are seeing that we are being challenged to do more and to do much better. And to do much better is extremely essential due to the fact that the difficulty with brand-new customers, particularly with foreign customers, is that we get individuals with more recent point of views and brand-new techniques to the issues, which implies that we get originalities, we get to consider brand-new options and originalities, and it brings us much better point of views, and we establish with the customers, we establish with the originalities, we establish with studying more, and with bringing more recent individuals to the groups. And the difficulties are, as normal.
I believe we ended the last discussion on this subject. The important things is, individuals. So, the difficulty is constantly to discover great individuals and to agree great individuals, and to encourage the groups to manage the needs. That’s it.
Lindsay: Yes, that definitely makes good sense. So, what would you state then, do you believe the marketplace is going to appear like and the company is going to appear like possibly in the next 2 years? I dislike to look too far in the future due to the fact that I believe we truly do not understand what’s going to occur, however possibly in the next number of years.
Tiago: Well, our company is currently twenty years, 19 years now. So, we have actually seen ups and downs and brand-new places and originalities and so on. And we understand that things can be seen simply put durations of, like a chart, or you can see it in a longer term, which is the viewpoint I like the most, due to the fact that in a longer term, you see more stability than ups and downs. And you can drive the workplace and you can drive the groups for steadier work and to keep advancing, despite the fact that you state, alright, the next 6 months, whether there are elections or there’s something that does not work out, or you are, alright, you have one and a half months in the summer season where everybody is lying at the beach. However alright, you understand that in the end of that, come September, you’ll go back to the activity, you’ll have the need once again, and you need to encourage individuals to keep reading, studying, speaking with each other, composing a couple of posts for the group and for the workplace to keep establishing, despite the fact that you might not be increasing business on a monthly basis.
However you understand that when the time comes, you have whatever all set for it. And the time comes, it’s simply a matter of taking a look at the pattern, seeing what the locations are, and establishing it. I believe that in the next 2 years, it is rather safe to state that property energy and, as normal, tax will be the significant locations on advancement. Realty, we currently see. Tax is all over, so you can not walk around throughout the world. It is what it is. And the energy sustainability, we should concentrate on these, and it’s a crucial issue for all economies. So, it’s something that we need to keep considering.
And for a law practice, it implies a great deal of deal with property due to the fact that it depends upon having ground to put the centers in. On having substantial improvements, if you are speaking about hydro on dams or perhaps on producing wind-based energy on the sea or anywhere, it implies a big improvement in the landscape, which implies likewise that you need to make sure about environment and security and so on. And after that it’s likewise the part of the insurance coverages and the connection to the state, indicating licensings and linking to the grids and so on, and rates on energy, which originate from European policy and so on. So, there is a huge work when we discuss energy. Either, we began considering energy, I do not understand, in 2008 on oil and gas, and now we are just considering solar and electrical energy from water, tidy energy, which is a big improvement, however it likewise implies substantial financial investments.
These financial investments are not, well, they are most likely not so substantial as oil and gas on platform rigs and so on, however they are substantial. And they indicate substantial improvements likewise on environment. So, we likewise need to make sure about that. So, I believe these are the significant indicate be established, which will keep the work fascinating, let’s state. And after that naturally, we constantly have the households and the estate preparation and the running company on organizations that we support which we have as customers for several years.
Lindsay: Definitely. You yapped about sustainability from the customer viewpoint, which I believe is truly essential since that’s what’s going to drive what’s taking place in the environment around us. However I wonder about it from the viewpoint of law office themselves. Do you believe that law office likewise require to be taking a look at their own ESG objectives and being more sustainable themselves?
Tiago: Undoubtedly, I do believe so. And I believe the more recent generations are more familiar with that and are more going to stop utilizing paper, to utilize less energy, to work more from home, and not to run the cars and truck to the workplace and after that run back and so on. I believe they’re more concentrated on that, and it is simpler to older attorneys that require the paper and require to print whatever, and they wish to have the files in front of them and check out things, read it on paper, and so on. So, I believe that primary step will end up being the generation space. We are seeing it taking place. In my case, I nearly do not utilize paper, and I’m not the youngest guy at the workplace, naturally, due to the fact that I have actually been there for several years.
However what I see is that more youthful attorneys, the more youthful generations tend to do it simpler. However I believe that, and what we see here is that that issue occurs or is a bit enforced likewise on the structures that we utilize and the equipment, the energy intake. However in Portugal, that’s being likewise a bit implemented by the state, indicating that if you have the workplace or a home with a lower energy effectiveness examination, you have greater taxes and you are not required, however you are welcomed to update it, to have photovoltaic panels, to utilize less energy, to make it more effective, to alter the windows, to have much better insulation, to utilize less the cooling, or utilize a much better efficiency cooling.
Which requires the users, and likewise the law office to consider it a bit much better or a bit deeper, let’s state. However I believe so, Yes. Although I do not believe attorneys are, or law office are the issue on contamination. Naturally, we utilize paper, however very little more than that. It’s our lives. It’s the method we consider, alright, should I go to the workplace every day? Do I require the cooling from 7:00 to 7:00? Do I require to print whatever? It’s more specific than, we are not utilizing vessels and we are not burning energy to work. Well, we are, however not straight.
Lindsay: Right. Not in the very same method as a few of the larger corporations are.
Tiago: Yes.
Lindsay: Yes. So, what would you state is the greatest location that belongs to either the practice of law or your market in specific that you wonder about at the minute?
Tiago: Realty in Portugal has actually been establishing in many various methods. On energy production, on tourist, on market, on personal customers and real estate. The need is rather high. The options in Portugal are rather great. The policy is rather precise, and concentrated on customers, on the marketplace, let’s state. Likewise, due to the fact that it represents a huge income for the state in tax, as there are lots of, lots of operations. That 2.1 location, I would state, one location that has actually been establishing a lot which we are rather thinking about is property which we have actually been working a lot with. Then the other locations are more things that we like to do which … Well, the part of the deal with public transportations, it’s likewise rather essential, and it’s rather fascinating, due to the fact that it provides us lots of originalities and lots of brand-new outputs of our work due to the fact that we look after public [inaudible 00:25:36], we talk with the designers of the innovation, we talk with the operators of the transportations, with the general public authorities that arrange and are the concessioners of the general public transportation grid.
And you have this IP of the circulation and the requirement to bring whatever together to serve a big population for a million individuals, which I would not state isn’t that much of a difficulty, due to the fact that my group is extremely utilized to doing that. We have actually been doing this considering that 2010. However it’s truly fascinating, and it truly inspires me. Even brand-new attorneys that concern the group, they’re truly astonished with, wow. Individuals that occur and state, “Okay, I go into the underground, I put the ticket in, and what’s whatever behind this?” Which’s rather fascinating.
Lindsay: That’s truly cool. That should be enjoyable work.
Tiago: Yes.
Lindsay: So, finishing up, I constantly like to ask this concern. What is something that has absolutely nothing to do with work that you’re truly taking pleasure in today?
Tiago: Doing this in August, its reading, household, and going to the beach.
Lindsay: That’s a fantastic response. I was considering it just recently, and I understood that sports groups have their off season, and I do not see why experts do not get their off season too. So, I believe this is the off season for lawyers. So, I believe that’s truly essential.
Tiago: Yes, however we discovered that a lot in Europe. August is, it’s not a dead month, however it’s extremely calm, a great deal of individuals on vacations, and it’s truly the time to delight in a little relaxation, keep breathing, keep considering the topics, compose a couple of notes on your own, talk to good individuals, as we are doing, have great concepts, and rest a bit. Yes.
Lindsay: Right, and after that September truly starts. Yes, precisely, precisely. Do a little getaway, possibly getaway in July, however likewise recover a bit, and after that it truly starts in September once again.
Tiago: Yes.
Lindsay: Yes. Well, Tiago, thank you a lot, I truly value you doing this and talking with us. This has actually been a truly fascinating discussion, and thank you a lot to all of our listeners for tuning in. We’ll be back next week with another visitor, and in the meantime, please take a minute to rate, evaluation, and subscribe on Apple Podcasts or anywhere you listen to podcasts. Thank you a lot.